Getting Started nrf9160 - a bunch of questions

BrianAtDocumentedDesigns

Hello and thanks in advance for the help.

I spent a number of months designing around another product (Blues.io) and while I was developing my app they decided to add an “event charge” which rendered my use case un economic. Or I think it did: I can’t figure out how to estimate costs with them so who knows.

To get started I can only buy the Thing Plus - I can’t find the feather. But I assume there are lots of common elements.

I have been looking around and discovered the nrf9160 and the Thing Plus. It seems that I should order an NRF DK for debugging. In the article I say they suggest the NRF5340-DK, but I came across the nRF9160-DK, which is much more expensive but also comes with an nrf9160 so having a second platform might be useful. Some of my questions are about the nrf9160-DK so if anybody knows a Nordic Forum I’d appreciate knowing about it. Nordic Developer zone seems to be more of a formal place.

1) Can I use the nrf9160-DK to program the Thing Plus? (it seems to have the programmer so I assume so)

2) I do not understand how approvals with with LTE. If I use a Thing Plus, or later an nrf9160 (either the module or an M.2 card) do I have to get approval/permission to connect to the carrier’s network?

3) What got me with Blues.io was that I had to connect to their cloud service, meaning they could charge whatever they wanted. Looking at the nrf9160-DK getting started information they talk about “Nordic Cloud” but I don’t see a similar thing for the Thing Plus. Can I connect to any cloud service (I saw Amazon listed as supported)?

4) Does anybody know the costs of Nordic Cloud?

5) Finally, I would like to estimate the costs of a simple application. Imagine I wanted to send my location every 5 minutes. How much data (all in) would this use? What would be the latency from the time I took a fix until the time it ended up in my app?

Thanks.

jaredwolff

BrianAtDocumentedDesigns 1) Can I use the nrf9160-DK to program the Thing Plus? (it seems to have the programmer so I assume so)

Yup either board can program it. The nRF53DK is cheaper thus my suggestion. 🙂

2) I do not understand how approvals with with LTE. If I use a Thing Plus, or later an nrf9160 (either the module or an M.2 card) do I have to get approval/permission to connect to the carrier’s network?

If you’re going directly with AT&T or Verizon, yes. If you’re using an MVNO you may not need to.

3) What got me with Blues.io was that I had to connect to their cloud service, meaning they could charge whatever they wanted. Looking at the nrf9160-DK getting started information they talk about “Nordic Cloud” but I don’t see a similar thing for the Thing Plus. Can I connect to any cloud service (I saw Amazon listed as supported)?

The Thing Plus should be pre-programmed with a cert for https://nrfcloud.com/

4) Does anybody know the costs of Nordic Cloud?

$0. It’s for evaluation purposes only IMO.

5) Finally, I would like to estimate the costs of a simple application. Imagine I wanted to send my location every 5 minutes. How much data (all in) would this use? What would be the latency from the time I took a fix until the time it ended up in my app?

This is application specific. (for example, CBOR vs Packed CBOR vs JSON will all yield different results. Even COAP vs MQTT will influence your usage) I would look at what your data rate is and also what your payload looks like and estimate it that way.

Hope that helps!

BrianAtDocumentedDesigns

jaredwolff

Thanks so much for the replies!

As a couple of follow ons (yes the nRF53DK is much cheaper)

1) Is the Hologram SIM considered MVNO?

2) If/when I develop my application do I need to connect to nrfcloud or can I go directly to Amazon or Azure or whatever?

3) I understand that data usage is dependent on specifics. I guess I am just trying to figure out a range or ballpark. For example, initially I thought I could get away with (eg) 100 byte data packets with Blues but it doesn’t seem that is possible. I am not sure but they seemed to imply the minimum was 4K. I am just trying to get a handle on orders of magnitude: obviously a 4MB monthly data plan with 4K per transaction is going to allow for different function than a 4MB plan with 256 bytes per transaction.

4) One other thing that occurred to me is that the Blues required “polling” the server to see if action was required. For example, I am pretty sure the LTE device would have to query “do you want me to do something” from the Blues cloud and you couldn’t “push” from the cloud to the device. This has clear ramifications for data use. Using the ThingPlus and Amazon or nrfcloud is it possible to send a message to the LTE device directly?

Sorry for all the questions: I wasted a lot of time and bandwidth and designed hardware and software around the Blues solution so I am trying to catch up and avoid another bad (for me) choice.

Thanks again

jaredwolff

BrianAtDocumentedDesigns 1) Is the Hologram SIM considered MVNO?

Yup. So are things like Soracom and Twilio

2) If/when I develop my application do I need to connect to nrfcloud or can I go directly to Amazon or Azure or whatever?

You can go directly to Amazon, Azure, or your own service.

3) I understand that data usage is dependent on specifics. I guess I am just trying to figure out a range or ballpark. For example, initially I thought I could get away with (eg) 100 byte data packets with Blues but it doesn’t seem that is possible. I am not sure but they seemed to imply the minimum was 4K. I am just trying to get a handle on orders of magnitude: obviously a 4MB monthly data plan with 4K per transaction is going to allow for different function than a 4MB plan with 256 bytes per transaction.

Remember there is also overhead especially if you’re encrypting data. I have a device that is on all the time and it’s about 4MB a month. It’s sending data every hour and then also pinging with the MQTT Server.

4) One other thing that occurred to me is that the Blues required “polling” the server to see if action was required. For example, I am pretty sure the LTE device would have to query “do you want me to do something” from the Blues cloud and you couldn’t “push” from the cloud to the device. This has clear ramifications for data use. Using the ThingPlus and Amazon or nrfcloud is it possible to send a message to the LTE device directly?

No matter what you’ll need a function to keep a connection alive and also check for new events. With MQTT there I a subscription mechanism that works well. With COAP there are ways to “subscribe” as well with minimal data usage. You’re going to have to experiment and see what works best for you.

BrianAtDocumentedDesigns

Thanks again!

In my case I am developing a product which will be kept alive, depending on how the software evolves, except essentially in emergencies. It sounds like a good fit. Thanks!