AchimKraus That is exactly also my usage. For example the Mobile BeeHive Scale is built with an nRF9160 feather, a Thingy:91 is missing expandability and a DK is just to large in size.

For LTE, I’ve been using Particle Boron Feather boards with nRF52840 / UBlox SARA modem, though these are not low power like the nRF91xx. I’ve been pretty satisfied with their Borons. BTW - Their EOL Xenons (nRF52840) make excellent Zephyr dev boards. A few online places still have old stock.

I haven’t come across any nRF9160 boards in a Feather format that satisfy my requirements in terms of a SWD 10-pin J-Link connector for ease programming/debugging. I was planning on designing my own nRF91xx Feather but thought I’ll check what Jared’s plans are going forward for the next iteration of his board. Why re-invent! Hence, the reason for starting off this topic last year.

However, Jared’s proposed design for a nRF91xx Feather checks off several asks - nPM1300, SWD Programmer/Debugger, and eSim. So, I definitely hope to use these nRF91xx Feathers for future deployments and development.

      I’m only interested in real low power devices. Leave the other stuff for the MQTT folks ;-)
      I guess Jared remembers, that before I ordered the first feathers I asked him in a private e-mail, if the feather really goes down to 10µA (because the Thingy:91 before v1.6 was more about 35-40µA and only, if you disable the 3V in deep sleep).

      A “low power device” (beside of a lot of marketing plurr, the nRF9160 is the only kid) accompanied by a “low power protocol” (CoAP/DTLS 1.2 CID) enables to build battery solutions and makes such devices much more independent.
      E.g. the Mobile BeeHive Scale runs from 3xAA 2000mAh (LSD) more than a year in the “wild” (in theory even 2 years ;-) ).

      zpm1066 Is there any reason why you wouldn’t want to use the nRF9151 over nRF9161 other than perhaps pin compatibility with nRF9160?

      They are actually not exactly pin compatible and does require a footprint change.

      From the specs, nRF9151 looks to be identical to a nRF9161 with the addition Power Class 5 20dBm and , of course, a smaller packaging. What advantages does nRF9161 provide over nRF9151?

      It’s available now vs waiting a while for the nRF9151. I do have an idea for the nRF9151 since it allows for more room. There’s still time to switch but I’m limited by when Nordic can deliver.

          jaredwolff It’s available now vs waiting a while for the nRF9151. I do have an idea for the nRF9151 since it allows for more room. There’s still time to switch but I’m limited by when Nordic can deliver.

          I suspect nRF9151 availability may be closer to Q3. Probably similar for the nRF54xx as well.

          Btw - Have you considered doing a Feather board with nRF7002 with either nRF54L15 or nRF54H20?

              7 days later

              In the meantime I got it, that the RP2040 will be used as USB bridge, and though on the board, maybe for swd. For the USB bridge it would be great to have two channels, that makes getting trace easier. I guess, there are then drivers for such an USB bridge, for Ubuntu and Windows? Mac?
              About the swd: The thingy:91 has a switch to select the target. Maybe that’s also an idea.

                22 days later

                @AchimKraus @zpm1066

                I need your input!

                Your thoughts on preferred VDDIO? The options are 3.3V or 1.8V. I could go either way right now. There would be longer term savings if 1.8V is used. Depends on the application though.

                  Hi Jared,

                  as for now, in my opinion, 3.3V helps the “makers”. Quite a lot of sensor boards are for 3.3V (or 5v). To craft the first 100 devices will benefit from 3.3V in my opinion. I consider, that in the most cases, it’s decided with that 100 to either build a product or not. So for me, 3.3V is preferred.

                  The other idea would be to connect the “battery” direct to the modem and make VDDIO “configurable”. That depends on the other ICs on the board, if that works. And for me, it’s not that important.

                  nRF9160 feather v5, 400days

                  Just for those, who are interested; that’s a nRF9160 feather v5, running from a 2000mAh LiPo for about a year. Exchanging a message with encryption over CoAP/DTLS 1-2 CID.

                  I’m still a bit of a noob compared to Achim and zpm, but my view is that you should keep it to 3.3v - Even if there would be powersavings by going to 1.8v, it it already so low that pushing it even more wont really matter, but as you also state, the hurdles to newcomers might be significant since a lot of other stuff out there needs 3.3v.

                  We use GPS on some of our things, but I did find it a bit odd that it was included by default rather than being an “addon” initially.

                  RGB LED is no doubt a great addition, and i’m looking forward to eSim!

                    Thank you @JeppeMariagerLam for your feedback 😎

                    JeppeMariagerLam We use GPS on some of our things, but I did find it a bit odd that it was included by default rather than being an “addon” initially.

                    Can you elaborate more here? I’m not sure what you mean. The fact that you needed a separate antenna?

                        jaredwolff yes, we have an external antenna, for example mounted on the top of a car rather than inside the steel box where the unit is connected to power.

                          jaredwolff
                          Hi Jared,
                          Like the majority of the “makers”, nearly all the sensors I use are 3.3V. However, for the longer term, I think it’s worth having a configurable 1.8-3.3V VDDIO if not much additional effort.

                          Are you planning on driving the RP2040 at 3.3V or in addition also thinking of using 1.8V, as RP2040 does support multiple power options?

                          Will there be an option to shutdown RP2040 if nRF9161 is in a sleep mode?
                          Any plans to bring out any of the GPIOs from the RP2040 to the Feather pins?

                              @zpm1066 thank you for the amazing feedback! 😄

                              zpm1066 Like the majority of the “makers”, nearly all the sensors I use are 3.3V. However, for the longer term, I think it’s worth having a configurable 1.8-3.3V VDDIO if not much additional effort.

                              It is possible actually with the nPM1300. The only part that wouldn’t work is the onboard NOR flash. It does not support such a wide voltage range. They have 1.8V variants and 3.3V variants. My thoughts would be to go with the 3.3V version and if any flash writes need to occur the buck needs to be placed into 3.3V mode. Testing is still necessary since I’m not sure how the flash would handle 1.8V. If it ends up leaking tons of current that would put the kibosh on it right there.

                              zpm1066 Are you planning on driving the RP2040 at 3.3V or in addition also thinking of using 1.8V, as RP2040 does support multiple power options?

                              Right now, thanks to all the feedback thus far, the plan is to run it at 3.3V. It does have a separate VDDIO pin which allows for running the IO at 1.8V. It does require 3.3V for USB (which is critical for this board!) on the other power supply pins no matter what.

                              zpm1066 Will there be an option to shutdown RP2040 if nRF9161 is in a sleep mode?

                              Good questions. It’s the reason why I’m asking you guys your preferences on IO voltages. 😇 By default it’s on on a cold boot but then is configurable in software to be shutdown when not in use. Both buck converters actually can be configured in “retention mode” which lowers the rail voltages when in a sleep mode (very neat).

                              zpm1066 Any plans to bring out any of the GPIOs from the RP2040 to the Feather pins?

                              No plans since it’s mostly meant to be a programming IC. All the GPIOs are going directly to the nRF9161.

                                        jaredwolff By default it’s on on a cold boot but then is configurable in software to be shutdown when not in use. Both buck converters actually can be configured in “retention mode” which lowers the rail voltages when in a sleep mode (very neat).

                                        Wonderful! Your nRF9161 Feather is looking fantastic!

                                        Btw - Any decision on which RP2040 debug probe firmware (probe-rs or raspberrypi debugprobe) you’re leaning towards? probe-rs development seems to be pretty active. I haven’t yet tried either but plan to in the next month or so.

                                            zpm1066 no choice yet. The CMSIS-DAP C implementation is slightly faster. I haven’t gotten there yet though. Stay tuned 😎

                                                I guess, it’s a too specific use-case, but I would welcome, if the board offers a 8-pin EEPROM solder mask. I would equip that with an HSM (ATECC608A) and use that for the encryption with tinydtls.
                                                I know, that the nRF9161 offers TF-M as well and so a HSM may be considered to be obsolete, but for portability it’s easier to keep the keys in such a device as the ATECC608A.

                                                @jaredwolff
                                                Perhaps a little late but is there any chance of adding an I2C/STEMMA connector for sensors, OLED, EEPROM, etc? Not sure if there is any space on the reverse side of the board. It would be pretty useful for expansion. Thanks.

                                                Thanks for the suggestions. I’ll definitely keep them in mind.

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